Edumacate Me: The Northstar V8!

"Klaus Schmoll" (klausschmoll) 02/23/2015 at 17:15 • Filed to: None

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An ink and paper (so no link, sorry) magazine I am a regular reader of had an article on relatively cheap "bang for your buck" cars. Of course the Northstar Caddies were in it.

There is no real market for them in Europe, so sellers have to accept pretty much any reasonable offer or sit on it for ages. They aren't bad cars per se, ride comfort, leather, (fake?) wood, AC, you name it, all the creature comforts imaginable at that time were there.Cadillac managed to sell enough for them being available at the used market, but not enough to really create a following around them.

It always was the cheaper, and more questionable alternative to the car you actually wanted to buy.

The article is waxing poetic about how the engine likes to rev, even comparing it to Alfa Romeo engines, BUUUUUTTTT it also lists a ton of teething problems. Burning oil, failing head gaskets, wonky engine management sytem...

So my question is, did they ever get those fixed?

(Disclaimer: I am totally not interested in buying one! I just want to know for the sake of knowledge itself.)

GhostZ > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:21

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These motors have always fascinated me too. Supposedly they're really compact for a DOHC engine at that displacement or something?

itschrome > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:22

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anything pre-2001 is total sketch ball country. After 2002, it's all good! and yes, my god the Northstar loves to rev! esp in the L37 trim (STS engine). they can be great long life engines and vehicles if properly loved and taken care of. I DD a 2004 SLS and I wouldn't have it any other way!

jariten1781 > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:30

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Don't know if they ever fixed them, but around the late 90s they were obnoxious leakers. Case half seals, rear mains, valve covers IIRC all would fail between 70 and 120k. We stopped buying them at auction because it was too much of a coin flip whether we could sell them without tearing them apart first..

Your boy, BJR > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:35

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2002-3? Maybe? They redesigned it slightly changed the heads, fixed a lot of the leaking/burning issues. 2003 and up are really the best years for the motor.

ranwhenparked > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:36

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They had issues with oil burning and leakage as well as head gasket failures, but were a much more modern and sophisticated engine than the HT-Series V8s that preceded it. On the surface of it, it was pretty competitive with BMW and Mercedes at the time, especially when it was new and still under warranty. Of course, it was only used in FWD applications.

And the interiors of those Eldorados and Sevilles were pretty shoddy, the fake wood was a very thin strip of flimsy plastic that flexes inward when you push it and the leather was over-dyed and over finished to the point where it was indistinguishable from vinyl.

It was all really frustrating. I loved the looks of those cars when they came out. Cadillac really seemed like they were trying hard to reverse course after their terrible mid t0 late '80s models, but GM's bean counters got in the way and cheapened them out way too much.

itschrome > ranwhenparked 02/23/2015 at 17:38

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Of course, it was only used in FWD applications.

ummmm

itschrome > jariten1781 02/23/2015 at 17:38

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fixed post 2001.

ly2v8-Brian > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:39

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They make a pleasant noise

As for the reliability issues... They're probably on par with contemporary European models. As for the cars themselves, traditional American big car style. These were meant to go long distances so they are give soft suspensions that smooth out all bumps and soft couch like seats. Properly optioned they had a lot of tech goodies like HUDs, digital gauges, or even nightvision displays.

itschrome > GhostZ 02/23/2015 at 17:40

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I'm no engineer or nothing but I wouldn't call that engine compact at all

DoYouEvenShift > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:41

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They run pretty good and sound great. But they leak oil from every crevice, and headgaskets dont seem to hold to well. Personaly not a fan.

itschrome > ly2v8-Brian 02/23/2015 at 17:44

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yes, the base suspension is your standard GM "Soft" with Air in the back and gas shocks up front. Also es the mid level suspension, being the air driven self leveling, unreliable and expensive as fuck to repair suspension was also really soft and floaty.. but forget not the first car in america to ride on sharp, responsive, magnetic suspension was the Cadillac Seville STS. and there ain't a damn thing floaty about that..

ranwhenparked > itschrome 02/23/2015 at 17:45

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Ah, right. I was stuck in the '90s. I don't believe the XLR or STS were ever exported anyway, the only ones encountered in Europe would be the Eldorado and Seville.

itschrome > ranwhenparked 02/23/2015 at 17:46

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:) also forget not the roots of my beloved:

If not for that the northstar would have never been born!

Trevor Slattery, ACTOR > Your boy, BJR 02/23/2015 at 17:48

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My parents (80 and 84) have a 2010. I am the only person who ever wrings it out.

I must admit, I never heard the engine in its power band until I drove it myself. The engine is nice...like others said, the sound is VERY un-Caddy like.

ly2v8-Brian > itschrome 02/23/2015 at 17:48

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Had the air suspension in my Buick, it wasn't expensive to maintain at all. It was definitely awesome for road trips.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 17:53

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Everything before 2001 or 2002 had the oil retention ability of a seive. Everything after that is a pretty damn reliable engine that makes a fantastic noise, has torque for days, and is actually fairly sophisticated for the time. Also, the predecessor to the magnetic ride found on modern Buicks, Caddys, Corvettes, and Camaros was first rolled out to the SeVille STS.

itschrome > ly2v8-Brian 02/23/2015 at 17:55

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Right, You had the FE1 package, same as my car. load adjusting air struts out back and then gas shocks and springs u front. that's a super simple and very comfy ride. the mid level was that awful CVRSS self leveling $750 bucks a corner to repair (and they always broke) system.. I believe it was FE1 with the f45 package. I don't think Buick ever saw that system. I had it on my 2002. it was such a nice ride, bumps? what bumps? haha but when one corner blew and I saw the bill I was like fuck that..

ly2v8-Brian > itschrome 02/23/2015 at 17:56

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Probably not I just had the base LeSabre. Good car really.

Your boy, BJR > ranwhenparked 02/23/2015 at 17:58

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the fake wood was a very thin strip of flimsy plastic that flexes inward when you push it and the leather was over-dyed and over finished to the point where it was indistinguishable from vinyl.

Uhhhhh

itschrome > ly2v8-Brian 02/23/2015 at 18:02

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great car! I had a 1998, in green with tan leather. such a beautiful car!

Your boy, BJR > Trevor Slattery, ACTOR 02/23/2015 at 18:04

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c'mon! Proper caddies ALWAYS have big nice sounding motors!

ly2v8-Brian > itschrome 02/23/2015 at 18:05

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Mine was a 2000

Klaus Schmoll > ly2v8-Brian 02/23/2015 at 18:10

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That truly is pleasant indeed! Perfect mixture of American wonky idle and Italian high-rev growl.

davedave1111 > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 18:26

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I asked basically the same question a while back, when I found out that they made them in RHD(?!) for a little while - by spotting one on Ebay.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/npocp-transatl…

There's a few replies you might find useful.

Oh, and the one with the 'minor fault, easy fix' is still for sale, still with the fault...

Sweet Trav > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 18:46

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Avoid these like the plague. Until about 2003 they were absolutely junk and even then, still nothing to write home about.

BuickSuper > Klaus Schmoll 02/23/2015 at 18:47

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That thing guzzled oil like I drink coffee. I had to start buying it by the case for my 2001 Sedan DeVille.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > ranwhenparked 02/23/2015 at 19:55

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The XLRs were exported to Europe, Canada and Mexico. Don't have the numbers handy for '04-'06, but 07-09 they exported 117 to Europe.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > itschrome 02/23/2015 at 20:00

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Actually, fixed post '98, but head gasket issues were predominately caused by poor maintenance. My 96 Eldorado has over 170K and never had a head gasket problem because I know how to maintain the coolant system properly.

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > Sweet Trav 02/23/2015 at 20:04

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I beg to differ...

Gizmo - The Only Good Gremlin, but don't feed me after Midnight > ly2v8-Brian 02/23/2015 at 20:11

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Especially if you put on Corsas:

BloodlessWeevil > Klaus Schmoll 02/24/2015 at 09:00

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Enough people have mentioned the reliability, so I'm going to mention the financial implications. The main issues are head-gaskets and bell housing leaks. The head gasket problem can be fixed permanently for ~3,000 USD and the bell housing for a little less (but will likely need to be done again at ~100,000 mile intervals.) Both fixes require pulling the motor. If I recall correctly it should run around 5,000 USD if you have them both done at the same time.

This assumes the head gaskets are a problem on the one you find, but the odds are against you too much to bet the other way. You can find 1997-2003 examples in good shape (and less than 100,000 miles) for less than 5,000. For 10,000, it's hard to beat if you want something comfortable and practical. Of course it will still be a 12 year old car, and significant repairs beyond the engine are a very real possibility.

Do the math, check out some Cadillac forums. Know what you are getting into. They really are good cars, you could spend six figures on new luxury cars that are no more comfortable.